Image: Zorger.com
This morning's Wall Street Journal has an Op Ed piece entitled "Is Internet Civility an Oxymoron?". My apologies in advance - the website requires you have an account to read the entire piece. But it's worth picking up a copy or reading it at the library. There is something going on recently on the internet, wherein people's veneer of civility seems to be wearing away faster than the cheap plating on a plastic charm bracelet. And the anonymity of the internet seems to exacerbate it. I've noted some sewing sites have become downright hostile in parts. Adding to the problem is the fact that anyone who tries to point out bad behavior is immediately and loudly shouted down. It's kind of a pig pile mentality that has been brewing for a while, but seems to have broken out into the open like an ugly boil. I don't know whether it's an extension of the whole "us vs them" mentality that has been rampant in politics lately, or if it's broader and more nefarious than that.
Mind you. I'm not saying I'm perfect. Not by a long shot. I've made my own share of stupid, snarky (some might say mean-spirited) remarks in the past, but lately the mob mentality seems to be taking over, and it's really disheartening. It's caused me to re-evaluate my opinions of some sites. Not just sewing - if you ever want to see toxic comments, go to Boston.com. Even some of my favorite fashion sites have had bombs lobbed in their comment sections. Yikes!
There's a saying (attributed here in Boston to the Irish Mafia) that goes, "Never write when you can speak. Never speak when you can nod. Never nod when you can wink." It's not a bad approach to commenting on the internet. The first sentence is salient to my point. Think about if you would actually say the words you're typing if you were face to face with that person. The screen and keyboard act as a barrier, behind which it's really easy to sling unpleasant remarks with little fear of retribution. Moderation does some good, but not always. In fact, I witnessed a shocking situation recently where a provocative comment on a message board generated even more provocative responses from moderators, supposedly the people who are charged with keeping the board civil. It was truly ugly.
So how to combat this problem? Well, there's always the Golden Rule. Do unto others on the internet as you would have them do to you. There's also the "just ignore and step back" approach. That's my favorite these days. I just would rather not engage in snarky sarcasm or mean debating. Hell, I just finished chemo. I got way more important things to worry about! Like what I'm going to make to go with my Madras Patchwork Skirt. I'm thinking a rayon jersey top from this Extra Wide Rayon Jersey in Coral. I just wish the weather would warm up just a wee bit!
Happy sewing!
PS - for those who knew her, Shannon Gifford, a lovely lady and a shining light in the sewing community, passed away last night after a long battle with cancer. Please keep her family in your thoughts.
38 comments:
You are not the first person recently to allude to unpleasantness on the internet. I never go on chat forums, and my blog is such a small, low traffic thing that I have never experienced any problems. So far everyone has been kind, polite and supportive. I hope I am succeeding in returning the same to them! I sincerely appreciate people sharing their projects and ideas with me and I wouldn't want to put anyone off.
Sometimes, when I am reading comments on blogs, now and then a comment sounds a little bit sharp. In these cases, I give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that it didn't come out the way that they meant it. Sometimes things aren't so funny/clever in print etc. If something is truly mean, I would just expect the blogger/moderator to delete it immediately and try not to take it to heart.
WOW,what timing. I just read blogs and usually never respond. I have read the snarky remarks on sites that you are talking about and I just remember my Mom says " If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all", so this is what I go by, life is just to short.
I have been wanting to ask you, on the Madras skirt, did you line it? Does the patchwork fabric need a lining? I say your review where not to use iron on woven.
Just wondering,
Thanks,
Beth
Beth, the patchwork doesn't need lining, but you certainly can line it if you want. I didn't line mine. It's not see-through. If you want to line it, I'd use a cotton batiste or the Misty lining.
HTH!
Personally I think it's a reflection of what's going on in our society today. Suddenly it's become acceptable to be rude to our elected officials, to the person sitting next to us on the bus or via the anonymity of the internet. All of it is sad and none of it does anything to help the situation(s).
I have no idea what's been causing it, but it sure has gotten out of control. I didn't see the particular post you mentioned, but from what I've read (which isn't much)it sounds terrible. What the heck is going on?
I agree . . . good old fashioned manners seem to have become, well, rather old fashioned! I was blissfully unaware of the controversy brewing on the well-known sewing website, and was rather sad when I looked into it and saw all the hostility. And then I hear about people who write blogs having to deal with horrible comments. . . what are people thinking these days? I just don't get it! I would hope that you, Ann, and anyone else brave enough to host their own blog has some type of liability insurance to cover yourself against idiotic lawsuits. I have a friend who had a blog for many years and is being sued for a rather inflammatory comment that he posted. The lawsuit is without merit (that's what he's been told), but he's had to spend tens of thousands of dollars defending himself in the meantime. I'd hate to see that happen to any of my favorite sewing blogsters!!!
I'm avoiding sewing forums from now on for just this reason. I like being in control of my message. I don't moderate comments on my blog because because I can delete (or better yet, edit!) anything I don't like
I'm very sorry to hear about Shannon Gifford's passing. I only knew her from her articles. I will put her family on my prayer list.
I think it's the veneer of anonymity, partly, which has contributed to the viciousness of internet comments, especially on media sites where any registered user can comment on any article. Boston.com is actually pretty tame most of the time, I am sorry to say.
I am considering stopping reading the one sewing forum I regularly read. It's not the one with the most visible issues right now, but there seems to be more chit-chat and less sewing going on. So far I can't break the habit, but I have restrained myself so far from commenting on a few hot topics.
Vale in pacem, Shannon Gifford.
Love your blog and today's post was very timely.
Thank you-Corinne
It is rampant these days, I think the mainstream use of technology to communicate has depersonalized us as a society. People do not write (handwritten letters) like they used to, which really is a lost art. As a child, I loved to write and receive letters, debating how to phrase it best. Now, everyone texts and FB's. Nothing wrong with it, just different. Many are becoming quite absurd, though, with the hostility. I cannot believe someone being sued over blog comments. Blogs are opinions in nature, our experiences, musings, journals of our achievements. To be sued over a post, that is absolutely silly and frivolous, someone out to scam a buck. I hope civility returns soon. :)
I know where-of (is that a word?) you speak. I try to post only when I have something helpful to add (but I'm not perfect at it).
I'm sorry to hear about Shannon Gifford. She will be missed.
I agree with you. I am very much the don't make a comment person. I just hope by not commenting I am not ignoring someone who needs support. I think it does the person commenting negatively a dis service. Like yesterday it was in our news of a celebrity sending twitters about his ex wife very uncomplientary as she had given a magazine interview uncomplimentary about him. She may have been in the wrong, but my opinion of him is now zero. And you can't take back what you have commented or twittered! Why can't we all just be nice?
I've seen so many negative things on the interent and I agree with Carolyn that it seems to be reflection of our modern society. I agree with Vicki, why can't we be nice to each other? If you don't like what someone is blogging about you can always stop reading and go somewhere else. I don't always comment on all blogs I read and I believe that if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all. I'm keen to see what you do with the coral jersey because I have been looking at it for a while, but it's not a colour I normally wear, but there's something about it I like ...
I was so sad to hear about Shannon Gifford's passing. I didn't know her personally but she was certainly loved by many.
Their blog is very touching.
http://acoupleconquerscancer.blogspot.com/
I love to read sewing blogs and I don't usually comment, but I have to agree. The lack of civility is really astounding. I have seen it in the comments sections of some blogs and in some blog posts (not here naturally. I agree with Carolyn that it's due to changes in our society and it's very disheartening.
A different Phyllis
At some point people decided they didn't want the formality of bygone eras, but they neglected to modify or replace it. Civility is a precious gift these days instead of the norm. It is unfortunately pervasive and compounded by a lack of personal responsibility for one's actions.
:::applause::: Thank you. In the past I will admit I have made snarky mean spirited comments. I have been trying to change my attitude in real life and online! I don't want to be a mean bitter person with nothing nice to say. Thank you again for bring this issue to everyone's attention!
It makes me sad that people aren't taught manners any longer. Children see parents acting like no one else matters and they behave the same. I see it in my classroom all the time with middle school kids. We all need to use our filters every now and then. If a thought comes to mind, it needs to be reviewed by the brain before it goes spewing out the mouth (or typing fingers) first. If people were to think before acting, this world would be a much more pleasant place.
Eliminating the anonymous option would go a long way to reminding people that they are talking to real people. If they don't want to attach their name to a comment, it probably should not be released into the internet!
It's the day and age in which we live. When it's accepted with our elected officials it's accepted with your neighbors. There's no more respect for the next person. It's all about "me". We've become a very selfish society. Ignorance breeds ignorance - we've had it for many generations now and this is what we have because of it. It's not going to change - only getting worse and you can really see it in the political world. Let's just hope people's rage doesn't turn to violence.
Good post, much truth in it. I think there are a few things happening -
1. more users from all over the world - what's a direct (blunt?) comment or question in 1 part of the world (or even large country) can be considered quite rude in another.
2. just more users, period. The more people you get gathering in one place, the greater the chances of misunderstandings happening.
3. afternoon talk show behavior. I remember when afternoon talk shows on TV were civilized. Then (his name escapes me now, he ran for a mayors(?) office not too long ago) had a show and it usually turned into a confrontational yelling match. It has carried over to radio talk shows and real life - those who yell the loudest "win".
4. the anonymous postings - enough said on that. Although I have used it (forgot password), but never to leave snarky/mean comments.
"Moderation does some good, but not always."
True, and the sites and boards I frequent are the ones where moderation is effective at keeping the environment a safe and pleasant one.
But then again, this is true in real life too, isn't it? Meanness to one's fellow human beings didn't just start on the Internet.
Hi Ann,
I sure agree with all of the above comments. We live in a no holds barred society and manners are sorely lacking.
On another note--quit twisting my arm to buy that coral fabric! LOL!You know I have to have it now to go with the skirt! It's just perfect.
Sorry to hear about Shannon's death from cancer. I hate cancer!
Maureen
So true. I enjoyed your article very much and reading all the comments as well. We are facing a real problem that transcends blogging and it's very sad that some chose to behave in a non civil way. I think some comments are not meant to hurt, but just express a disagreeing opinion or taste. We bloggers are very sensible to criticism because we feel that we share so much for the good of the community. I go with the “if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all" saying.
R.I.P. Shannon Gifford, I will pray for her and her family.
I agree with Carolyn. Nobody ever heard of road rage when I was growing up? Rudeness abounds in our country IMHO. I do think technology has contributed to it. It is rare that we can even get a real person on the other end of the line when we call for assistance somewhere? And, I wonder if it hasn't contributed to the bullying epidemic in some of our schools? I do not like some of the discussions on the sewing sites of late either. I wish I had an answer?
I don't understand it, either. I used to periodically read the boards *there* (w/o commenting) but it was too painful to witness such rude and, sometimes, mean comments. Have people forgotten how to have a lively discussion (where we might disagree!) without resorting to this type of behaviour? I'm so sick of the me, me, me attitude. As the saying goes 'if we were meant to talk more than we listen, we'd have two mouths and one ear'!
Which is why I love my blog - if someone writes something negative (which has only happened once in four years) I just click 'send to trash'!
Rest in peace, Shannon. You were a lovely, gracious lady and will be missed by many.
Heck - I notice it more in real life too...it's like every one has an issue and you're responsible for it or at the least have to hear about it - No thanks!
Bad behavior or whatever you want to call it is like try to digest bad meat in your physical body - it just messes up your spiritual body, makes you want to spiritually throw up, have spiritual diarrhea, then leaves you with a worn out feeling!
Thanks, but no thanks!
yeah, this is why I have been done with P.R., for like 2 years now, well, I guess that's one of the reasons. It used to be so fun. Sorry to hear about Shannon Gifford, she was a lovely person, always helpful and generous with her knowledge.
Ann, I agree that some of the things that I have seen said on some of the sewing blogs is quite surprising.
Additionally, unfortunately the Internet is a place for some cowards to lose their identities giving them the platform to say horrible things without remorse.
I so miss Shannon. She was my sewing teacher, and a person to emulate in all ways. Civility and garciousness itself.
Beyond previous comments about less general civility and ease of saying anything behind anonymity, many are also living their life out in the open online more. Barriers of private vs public are falling away. I'm not comfortable with that. I don't think that's a barrier I'll get over. Facebook is very personal, even blogs contribute to this but you can be very personal or only professional on a blog and everything in between. This all adds to people letting it all hang out ... online, for everyone to see and read.
However, "the lack of incivility," I think, is most uttered by those on the left, which doesn't like criticism. We still have Freedom of Speech in this country...so let's be fair to those who disagree with us. I, for one, am outraged at whoever damaged Republican Eric Cantor's office. I am disgusted at treatment of a young black conservative at one of the Tea Parties (largely unreported). I am disturbed that a young Republican woman was attacked in New Orleans after the Southern Republican Leadership Conference. These are acts of incivility most of us haven't heard about...and there's a reason for that. Executives at top-tier media outlets (ABC, CBS, New York Times...) would you like you to believe those critical of this administration are racist. I think not. There's a lot of projection going on. What about the gays who heckled Obama in San Francisco recently? Are they racist...or just contrarian?
I'm not sure it's the political climate, or even the Internet. I have the feeling that we no longer know how to disagree or debate, and it has been a problem for years. I remember my grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. sitting around the table for hours debating, even arguing, about all sorts of things and there was no sense of personal attack--it was fun to watch. That seems lost. I admit I get caught up in it too--I read some of those threads and my stomach feels all knotted and then I feel like an absolute idiot later because the issue was so trivial in the first place.
Gaby, you reminded me of something a person I worked for years ago said that has been a mainstay in my day-to-day interactions: "Reasonable people can disagree."
@the_lazymilliner - it's not just the left. Both sides of the political aisle are equally tainted. You can see it right here on this blog in This Post.
I've noticed more rudeness all over the place as well. One of the worst places for it has been on a cancer support board I belong to (and rarely frequent now).
I think the rudeness is caused in part by the selfishness in our society. That and the inherent anonymity of the internet means that people feel they can say whatever they like. They forget that they're talking to a person and that they're not necessarily as anonymous as they think.
When I took over Sew-Whats-new.com, after my mom "retired", I was absolutely shocked at how mean some of the comments could sound on a SEWING site!!! I had managed a divorce-oriented community for over 12 years, and honestly, the sewing community was the one that had a lot more cattiness than the divorce-oriented site ever had, I was so so so surprised. All I've ever done with that sort of communication is to hit the delete button. I get "yelled at" at times for doing it, and some peopple have gone so far as to call me a control freak, but as far as I am concerned, no one enjoys reading or watching a cat fight over sewing of all things... (JMO)
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